BPA Conference Explained: Why HVAC & Home Performance Are Finally Colliding

The HVAC industry is changing fast—and the Building Performance Association (BPA) is right in the middle of it.

In this episode of HVAC ADHD™, Jeremy Begley sits down with Bethany Sowinski and Nate Natale from BPA to break down:

The history of the National Home Performance Conference

Why HVAC and home performance are finally overlapping

What contractors are missing right now

How electrification, IAQ, and load reduction are reshaping the industry

Why this conference matters if you want to stay relevant

If you're an HVAC contractor, home performance pro, or building science nerd trying to figure out where things are headed—this episode connects the dots.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:59

The walls between these industries are falling down, and that's a very good thing. And today I'm joined by Bethany Sawinski and Nate Natelli from the Building Performance Association. We're talking conference history, industry evolution, and how this thing started way back in 1986 and why BPA's event has become one of the real educational heavy hitters in the building performance world. This one is for you. Let's roll. Hey guys, welcome to a special edition of the HVAC ADHD vodcast. I'm your host, Jeremy Begley. I'm here today with Bethany Sawinski and Nate Natalie of the BPA Building Performance Association. We're going to talk a little bit about the upcoming conference and the history of it, how I got involved, how they got involved, and a bunch of good stuff. So I'll let them introduce themselves and then we'll jump into it. Bethany, take it away.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Hi everyone. I'm Bethany Sawinski. I'm director of education and events with the Building Performance Association.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

I'm Nate Natalie. I'm the Chief Operating Officer at the Building Performance Association. Good to be with you, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Hey, good to have you both. So tell me a little bit about each of you, how you got involved with the organization, how long you've been there, what your history is with it. Just take us through it. Like what what what do you know that we don't know?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

She was my very first hire and has been with me ever since. I've been here just over 15 years. I started I was in education, adult ed. I was a teacher, got into adult education, got into association work around professional development for adult learners. And I kinda the organization I was with just didn't really align with a lot of my sort of values and just what I wanted to be doing. In general, I'd never heard of home performance at all, even though this conference started in my backyard almost quite literally, up over the hill. And uh yeah, came across this this this job basically coming in to support the person who was doing what Bethany does now, and just sort of uh worked my way up. We had a bunch of different turnovers, our organization has changed names. And in the industry as well as in our in our association organizations, except for us, we've been here through a whole bunch. So yeah, it's a little bit about how I got here.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

And Bethany?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah, kind of similarly to Nate. I wasn't aware of the industry too much, but I had been working towards a sustainability degree, and there was a lot of overlap in what we were learning at my program and energy efficiency and energy reduction efforts. So when I first started, I learned a whole lot about the industry. It's you know, it was first based in Pittsburgh here, which is where I got my degree, my sustainability degree. But now we're we're a national company, national organization. So we have folks all over the country, not just here in Pittsburgh. So good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

And what what just so the audience knows, what was the first year the conference actually happened? Like when the when did AC it was first ACI, right? That was the first name of it. And when what was the first year the ACI conference was put on?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Yeah, that was the affordable comfort conference. So it was a conference before ACI. ACI was the organization that formed just a you know 10 years later or so. But yeah, it was 1986, was the first year. So this is our 40th anniversary this year.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

40th. And you guys got involved at what year roughly?

SPEAKER_02 5:05

2011 was my first one, and I believe definitely 2012 was was yours. Correct, yep.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, and by that time were they calling it ACI? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so 2012, that's the first time I ever attended the conference, was Baltimore, correct? That's that was a Baltimore conference, yeah. And it was yeah, and I I had never knew I was in the industry, but I did not know about the conference until I got on Twitter and I was interacting with you know other people. And actually, what got me out there was Peter Tros from Energy Circle was doing a round table on marketing, and he him and I had interacted on Twitter. We had never met. That's the first time we ever met in real life, too, was at that conference as well, but we had never met. And he's like, Hey, you know, you I had a website up, we had Cincinnati Energy Sol Cincinnati Energy Solutions was our company at the time, and he's said, Hey, why don't you you're pretty good at marketing, you're on Twitter all the time. Why don't you come out here and talk about it? And then so I ended up attending and presenting the very first time I ever even knew the thing existed, so it was quite the experience for me. Throwing you into it, threw me into fire, yep, exactly. But it was a cool fire to be in. I met, you know, when you first go to these things, this is one of the cool uh pieces of it, I think, for anybody is some people are a little bit celebrities, you know, in the industry, they're bigger names, you see them, you interact with them all the time, and then you can go to these types of events, and not only is there a great knowledge base, because I've always said this conference, I compare them, there's I won't throw out names, but there's other industry conferences that I've been to, and some of them are what I call full of fluff a lot more because a lot of times sponsors can pay to do sessions and stuff like that. But from my experience at this conference, it's always been highly educational. I never went into a session that I didn't leave with something valuable, and I also never went into a conference or a session and came out of a man, I can't believe they let that guy up there, which has happened at some of the other conferences where people pay to get up there and just talk about a product the entire time instead of bringing any any real knowledge. So I do value that about the way that this actual conference is ran. So take us a little, do you guys know from from the transition? When did it stop being affordable comfort? When did it become ACI? When did it come become BPA? What prompted those name changes? You guys have any insight into that little bit of history there?

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So uh when ACI became the Home Performance Coalition, you know, we had there had been a basically our industry had all of the different pieces of traditional trade or industry association as separate entities. You had BPI, you had a you know doing credentials, you had ACI doing, you know, conference in education, you had Home Energy Magazine, you had even NHPC, which is who we merged with, which was a sort of advocacy group, and that's kind of evolved into our advocacy work that we do now, including their founder as our as our chief policy officer. So there's just a uh a big hunger is pushed you know by funders really. Hey, we can't give give all you y'all money all the time. It would be better if you came together with one ask. So the NHPC transition around 2016 would have been the first one. And then in 2019, we became the Building Performance Association. And and additionally, I I decle to mention efficiency first. Some of your listeners might be might remember. I was on the board.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I was on the board for a while there. Yeah, that is a good one to bring up for sure. They were straight policy, but it definitely played in everything for sure. Yeah. Tell us the sort of the hierarchy of what how that that's all set up.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Yeah, so you know, we have publication, which has sort of become our, you know, an e-version of what home energy magazine was, you know, sort of but but more timely. You know, that was that was more of a period periodical type publication. You know, we have you know a big advocacy policy side to our organization now, which was the NHPC part. Obviously, the member, the member component is what efficiency first did. So we have all those pieces under Building Performance Association, including the education and conference work that ACI, you know, started. And then BPI remains separate, you know, with the credentials and and and such. So we sort of have that that firewall, which is probably a good thing. You know, we align really well and they're great to work with and provide their CEUs at all of our events and and that sort of thing. So that's where we are now.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

So where do you that's so we sort of talked about how where the conference came from and it continues to evolve. So how do you guys see it in today fitting into today's world, today's landscape, the industry landscape, interacting with you know, the new construction world and everything else? How how does BPA fit in today?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, I mean, I I think we keep evolving. It's when's our history, and I think will be our future to adapt to what the contractors need and want. And, you know, we focus mostly on residential, existing residential buildings with some multifamily in there as well, and and small commercial. And I think it's it's probably, you know, you mentioned that your first conference was in 2012 talking about marketing. And, you know, if you look back in that session, what you talked about that you needed to know about marketing then is probably completely different than the marketing landscape now, and you know, we're bringing in more discussions of of AI and how that can impact the the industry and and businesses and operational efficiency and things like that. And then also, you know, just different diagnostic equipment that that have been developed that you know you can learn more about and things, virtual audits and you know, all the changes that that you just need to know, workforce issues that continue to change as we need to bring more people, you know, into the trades and educate people about the industry that exists and the importance of you know house as a system within other trades. Like you said, getting to know the ATRAC industry and and the home performance industry, building performance industry, and and how they can overlap and intersect to kind of both bring more to the to the forefront and help people run their businesses a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, absolutely. And I you bring up our conversation earlier about the HVAC industry. I do feel this is the time for the HVAC industry and home performance to sort of come together in a way that they never have before. There's a lot of new interest from the HVAC side, from the younger technicians that are really getting into the geeking, what we call the geeking out side of HVAC, where they're really trying to understand what they're doing in a way that techs didn't before. And the owners are sort of from our generation now a little bit. There's a little bit of aging out going on. So the they're allowing a little more leeway for these younger guys to sort of explore some of this stuff instead of just turn and burn boxes all the time. And I think the public's demanding it a little bit more now. We have a more educated public with the internet and AI the way it is. You could ask AI anything, and you know, you whether it's right, wrong, or otherwise, you're gonna have 10 things to say to somebody when they walk in your house. So these guys really got to be up on what is right and what's wrong, because if not, they're gonna have a hard time having conversations with some of these homeowners. So I think all that stuff, and we talked about private equity now, has more eyes and more money on HVAC. So they're looking for new ways to grow those revenue streams there, too, that are inside the HVAC industry. So all that stuff plays well for home performance, and it has a lot of the younger HVAC eyes on home performance. And I think that this conference really is going to bloom in the next few years and grow into sort of you know a secondary housing for the HVAC guys. They have some of their own conferences and they have a what the HVAC school building crap, let me say this right. HVAC school symposium, training symposium that Brian Orr puts on every year. That is sort of the I always liken it to sort of Joe Stevrick's building science camp for the HVAC industry. It's a high, high-end conference with nice trade show and stuff that, but they don't have the history or the ability as far as reach and funding and stuff that you guys do to be able to really put on the type of educational peer home performance with HVAC built into it, training symposiums that or training sessions, I should say, that the home performance the BPA ACI that conference has been able to bring over the years. So I'm really, I'm really excited for the future of this particular conference.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

You know that I'm sorry, Bethany, did I interrupt you?

SPEAKER_01 14:09

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Oh, yeah, the you know the HVAC contracting business, nut, if you will, is the one we've been trying to crack for for quite a while, just knowing the opportunity that's there, you know, for performance, for you know, building science principles being incorporated into that work, you know, trying to get the word out that we could be a professional home for for those folks who are looking to to maybe take it to the next level and you know get out of the box swapping or however you want to put it. It's just been a it's been a challenge because you know, just to penetrate that space has been it's just it's tough. So we love being on here. We love being able to talk about it. You know, we're we're at a time too where we're we're we're uh sort of doubling down a bit on uh letting the our our traditional contractor base, which are the the home performance contracting businesses, which you know, just making sure they know that their professional home is at our conference. You know, we have this delicate balance, we have a huge amount of weatherization, agency folks who who attend. Building science is building science, you know, but at the same time, I think the contractor is looking for just more support on their business development and that sort of thing, you know, and they it they're just looking for more of that from us. And so we're working on some things that we hope will also translate to the HVAC companies, you know, being, okay, that's they have all this good technical information, but they're also supporting businesses. So hopefully, you know, we'll make some progress there.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, I think you make a good point about the business model. And I think that right now there's probably a few different business models out there in the HVAC space that incorporate home performance that have not been there previously. There are some very boutique contractors that not only are very proficient and high-end on the HVAC side as far as just technol using technology to the fullest advantage and understanding inverters and stuff. Yeah, but then they're also little turning and turning themselves into little home performance gurus who understand the home side of it too. And that's a boutique offering that's out there. Then you have the HVAC company that has added the not the guy that I just described is usually a one guy that you know is doing very specific services for people under his own umbrella, and they, you know, maybe are a little science projectsy type projects, but nonetheless, very, very high-end, high performance projects that may not go on in a typical my airs out situation. You know, this is these are people that want their house to work a certain way and they're paying somebody to come in and make that happen for them. And there's usually one this, you know, that that business model is, hey, I'm this guy that can do this, this type of service and only this type of service for you. And that's what I specialize in. Then there is the HVAC companies that have trucks on the road and they're doing typical HVAC service and they're doing full replacement and they're doing new construction, but they also want to be able to serve the clients that want to be served a little bit better and have some guys in their shop that do have a full understanding of home performance and allow those particular guys to use it, even though that's not the focus of their business. And then there's the other guys who it is, they're a big shop and it's they're what we called it back in the day home performance contractors. They are that model where it's HVAC-centric, but home performance, quick heads up for anyone in the HEAC, home performance or building science world. The 2026 National Home Performance Conference and Trade Show from the Building Performance Association is coming up. And if you're serious about where the industry is going, electrification, IAQ, permanent load reduction, building science, any of it, all of it, this is one of the events where those conversations actually happen. You'll see contractors, manufacturers, program folks, and trainers all in one place talking about what's working in the field and where the industry is headed next. If you want to check it out, we've got a special contractor rate just for HVAC, ADHD listeners who are new to the conference. You can register for$825, which is$250 off the normal registration. Just go to nhpc26.org backslash HVAC dash ADHD and use the code NHPC-H V V-O-D when you register. And if you're end up going, come find us. We'll actually be recording some HVAC ADHD episodes on the conference floor. Contracting is the way they do business. So there's a wide range out there, and it's probably even some other steps in between that that I have my, you know, that I didn't touch on, but in my mind, those are the three different operators right now. And I don't think we had as much of that in the home performance space back when I was actively involved running a home performance company. It was sort of there was friction in the industry. The HVAC guys are on this side, home performance was on this side, these ideas could not intermingle with these ideas. And if you were doing something that was even had the word home performance in it, a lot of the guys ran the other way. And then, you know, the Obaminaire sort of killed some of that because there was so much money getting dumped into home performance that a lot of the HVAC guys had no chance choice but to participate. So then that opened it up to the HVAC industry on that side of things a little more. And I think some of that has trickled down also into where we are now. So I say all that to say, I think we're in a good space for home performance and HAC to have a natural marriage with technology and private equity money and everything that that is driving it toward those two industries towards each other. And it's the science behind it. The house has always been the house, it's a whole house, and they all the stuff interacts. So as soon as guys have aha moments out in the field, they're never gonna be able to unknow that stuff, you know. So as long as they keep learning, they're gonna they're gonna understand either by accident or on purpose what is actually going on in a home. So yeah, I got on a soapbox there. But yeah, I'm passionate about it. The the HVAC I'm I'm excited. Let me say this. I'm excited about where the HVAC world is and the home performance world is right now because it's something we've worked a couple, you know, myself and several other people in the industry have really worked hard to sort of bring that together. And it's just really nice to see it actually happening now on a scale that I didn't really ever think would be possible.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Sure. And yeah, we when we look at our what we think of our most successful contractors, a lot of them in our in our orbit, if you will. You know, they start they they are HBC contractors who've incorporated the whole house approach. And so we see that model, and you mentioned that was a third, the third option when you were talking. Yeah. That's that's the ideal because you're you're in the homes, you know, you have service agreements, you're you know, trusted. They it's just it's just ideal. You have the business infrastructure, and then the you know, this opportunity, the whole house opportunity allows for new business lines, and and then we've seen you know, some companies like Halco in upstate New York, they're just you know, start out HVAC and they do everything you can possibly imagine, all of it based in the whole house approach, every renewable, every service you can think of in a in a house. And you know, companies that are a great model. We we just, you know, we just need the opportunity to put those in front of more HVAC businesses.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I think that type of company is gonna become more organic. I really do. It used to be, hey, that's the standout. How close is a standout? Everybody uses them for the example of what you can do with HVAC and home performance, and those guys have owned it in a way that not a lot of HVAC companies chose to do. And I think that now, though, with the interest that we have from the ground up, you're just gonna see companies that get started, they're just gonna be that. And then the one thing we haven't talked about is the heat pump and the electrification side of it, that push in itself lends itself to own performance because my God, if you're putting a heat pump on a bad house, I feel sorry for the rest of your existence owning that customer because it's gonna be a bad time. So I, you know, it's there's just a lot of great stuff pushing it that way right now. And I think, you know, this conference is just one piece that can really serve this industry in a way that it maybe hasn't before.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, yeah. And I think what's what's great about the conference and some of the sessions is that it's led the some of the sessions are led by contractors who are really open about sharing their their journeys of adding business lines, what's failed. So when they made mistakes, maybe they should have done something differently so that somebody else can learn from what they experienced. And it's not really they don't hold too many cards close to their chest, so to speak. They they they'll they're open with sharing what's worked and what hasn't. It's you know, just trying to help everyone else succeed to And so it's a really great opportunity to to hear, you know, what what how go did that that worked, and they'll tell you what what didn't and maybe have some some shared commiseration over some failures. But it's kind of refreshing that the contractors are so open and talking about that in their business models.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

It's super important for the growth of other companies to hear that stuff from those guys firsthand. There's no better lesson than what somebody else did and why it worked or why it didn't work. And if people were willing to share that, then that is a gold that you cannot get just out in the street talking to somebody, or you know, even from your own experience. Sometimes somebody's gonna went through something slightly different than the way you went through it. And you might have a little aha moment of your own where you're wow, I never thought about doing it that way, and that might work, and we're gonna go back and fix that. So, yeah, I agree. That is one of the awesome things about having this type of conference led by contractors that can get up there and share their real world experiences and the knowledges for sure. All right, well, we're running up on our time. So you got you got any parting thoughts? I usually end my sessions, I say, hey, if the world ended today and you had to leave behind one piece of advice for people who are restarting society, what would you paint on the wall? So let's I'll throw that out there to you guys. It can be home performance, it could be your own personal philosophy, it could be anything, but I've never ended a session without asking that question, so I'm gonna throw it out there for you as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

That that's it, that's a tough one. I'd say, you know, we learned a lot of things post-COVID, but being able to gather people together is is a huge gift for us now. And yeah, I think conferences are a great way to do that. And obviously, education is really important to moving yourself forward as a as a human being, but also you know, home performance-wise, HVAC-wise as a as a company. So to take those opportunities to to convene and network and hang out with with your friends, meet new people and learn from their experiences. And you know, I don't think we can we can take that for for granted after after COVID. So we're we're happy to be able to gather everyone again.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

1000% agree. Super powerful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Heck of an answer, Bethany. Yeah, I mean, that's you know, the part about getting together, you know. I riff on that a second. You know, when COVID happened and and we had two virtual conferences, and we had to stand the one up the first one so quickly, and it was just so chaotic, and then it worked. I mean, thank goodness it worked. We're still here because you know, it wasn't a guarantee in those days. And you know, there was coming out of there, there was such a uh emphasis on on the the virtual option having you know, there has to be a component every time people get together. And you know, we thought that at first too. And then we started to realize that Yeah, people just need to get together. It's it's it's in it's instinctual, you know. We we we crave community, we crave camaraderie. So in the business of gathering people, that's that's gonna not go away. And in fact, I you know, come to realize that even a virtual component of something in person sort of pulls away from from both. You know, it pulls there there is a place for virtual learning. I'm a big proponent of it. But I think those things are are best when they're their own things. You know, so it's it's so great to be able to be a convener. We love that part of our jobs. And also, you know, if I'm gonna restart society, I'm gonna be in being from Pittsburgh, I'm gonna go I'm gonna riff on Mr. Rogers a little bit and talk about the three things that are uh you know lead to success. Kindness, kindness, kindness.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

100% love it. All right, thank you guys. We're gonna try to roll this episode out here very shortly in the next uh few days. We're gonna edit it down and then I'll get it out bottom of this week, top of next week. So I'm excited to get it out there in front of people, and I thank you both very much for joining us today and and and telling everybody the history of the conference, and hopefully we can get some more people attending.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Thank you. And Jeremy, we we didn't get an opportunity to talk about your session that you'll be doing at the conference if you would to discuss that. And we'll also be having some podcast sessions just this, so kind of a modern day fireside chat where you can be live in the room with others when they're doing their podcasts. So that's true. We should have brought that stuff up.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah. So I'm doing uh first off, the podcasting is huge. I love it. This is one of my favorite things that you guys are doing. So other conferences have done it. It's not a new concept, but it is awesome that you guys are being able to incorporate it into your conference, and I'm excited to have HVAC ADHD vodcast be one of the inaugural podcasters. And we are the session I'm trying to do for that, I need to get get it together, but I I'm trying to get one attendee that HVAC contractor that has gone to the conference for a long time, and then with someone who's new to sit down and sort of talk what do you want out of the conference? What do you usually get out of it back and forth? That's uh from an HVAC, you know, pure HVAC perspective. So that's what we're trying to do for the podcast session. If you guys have any guests that you would want to throw my way that you're, okay, these people are attending, they might be great. I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to wrangle up a few people that'll be there for that conversation. The session that I'm doing is permanent load reduction, the hidden driver of HVAC sales. And this is based on, we have a training that we do, it's an eight-hour training. It's called permanent load reduction through the eyes of conduit tech or through the eyes of lidar technology. If you're using Ampli or something like that, we just I've always used Conduit Tech. I'm super friendly with those guys and help them a little bit in the beginning. So we sort of brand it with that. But there's the other software's coming online. There's one called Ampli, there's one called CoolCalks that's going to be, it's been around for a while as an online software, but they're adding LiDAR to that, I heard. So there's a few of them now that have the technology available. But the ideal is to be able to use the, as we talked about a little earlier, to be able to use the load calculation as a roadmap to create exposing thermal deficiency of the of the home. And then A, being able to add those into your peer sales if you want to, or make a commission off having somebody else come back and do the measures. And then B, being able to drive your own sales and your own KPIs from a general sense, using the home performance KPIs as drivers for those. And so that's really the main part of the conversation is how does that affect the business that you already do? You start doing these things, how does it help this business that you already have? You know, how does it amplify that? And how does it help you make more money with the stuff that you already have? So that's really what we're trying to cut put, what we're trying to get across to people, as well as the fact that we're in a world where it doesn't take too much to add to stuff on. Now's the time to start adding it into your your business workflows because it does not add that much and the value add for your company is tremendous. So that's sort of the gist of what we are going to be talking about there.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah, we're excited for it. And and hopefully your listeners will come out and hear you in person in Columbus in April.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I'm hoping so too. We're going to keep talking to them about it, and hopefully we get some of them. I think Katie was saying a couple of people have used the code already. So we will flash the discount code up on the screen here for you guys, and it'll be in the show notes, and it already is in the notes of other videos that we've made to promote it. So, or if you know me, inbox me, I'll give you the code. Either way, you can get it from me, and you can get a healthy the biggest discount out there they're allowing us to offer through this podcast. So definitely take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

And that's you know, the whole the whole idea around that rate. I was talking earlier about making an effort, doubling down the contractors to say, come check us out. That's what this is all about. And certainly the H HVAC contractors in your audience are the ones you know. Absolutely. We believe they're gonna they're gonna be the ones that help scale this thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

So I believe it too. I 100% believe it. All right, so really I'll see you guys later this time. Bethany, thank you very much for bringing that out. It was super important to get that in. I'm so glad you brought that up. Thank you. Great conversation.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

If if the that random Mr. Rogers thing doesn't fit, feel free to cut that. No, I don't think it will fit it. I was thinking about society and starting society over, and I'm man, we gotta be we're yeah, no, it's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

That's why we do it. Everybody's advice is is counts and is great. We've had you go back and listen to some of the podcasts. People say some cool stuff when you put them on the spot like that. So yeah, it's a pretty cool little concept.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

We we didn't get to talk about how we were in a fantasy football league together one time.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

We were kind of a good Peter's the one with Peter and all those guys until it went on for a few years. I mean, we did that thing for a while, and then I just I don't know what happened, it fell apart, I guess. But yeah, that was a good time, though, back then. You know, the industry was a different place at that time. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

My second time ever playing fantasy football, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

So I'm trying to put together a Twitter round table of all the people that started in home performance that were on Twitter. So I'm trying to do a session with me, Peter, Allison, Carl Seville, and a few other people that were around on in the Twitter days because that's where we all met at, and that's where really I started learning home performance. There was Twitter groups and the about specific topics and building performance and stuff that and then it sort of migrated to LinkedIn, and that whole community was in the BPI ResNet group that Dave Butler ran, and now it's just out in LinkedIn, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yeah, we actually brought that group in. We had a home performance forum.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

That I was on there for a while, just never really took off. The LinkedIn group did. There was not the same interaction. I mean, there are some, even to this day, I think there's some people on there talking, you know, home performance or whatever, but it just never turned in. I think that community mostly lives on LinkedIn now, to be honest with you. That's where everybody's interacting these days, just out in the public space of LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Yeah, it was one of those things, you know, trying to trying to pull these forms together, but they were just the organic nature of where they were at first, were just better, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yeah, it's just where people go. That is what it's all about. You know, if you build it, they will come, yeah, to a certain extent. If they were gonna go there already, yeah, they're gonna come. But if they're not headed that direction, you might have an empty building. I don't you know. So correct. All right, well, I'll let you guys go. We'll talk soon. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah, well, CNC in your home state of Ohio, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Indeed, that is another exciting thing I should have brought up. Is hey, it's in Ohio, and in that's one thing that I'm super excited. I was telling Katie, it's never been that close to Cincinnati before. Too bad I don't live there anymore because I'm in Knoxville now. So, but oh okay for the past five years I've been in Knoxville, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I wouldn't be headed to Cincinnati from Columbus because my daughter has a soccer tournament there, so I was gonna mention maybe. But you're in the you're in Knoxville, Knox Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yep, Knox Vegas. Well, that's Nash Vegas, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Nashville is I used to have a Knox Vegas shirt that I got at a UT Georgia game back in the game. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's like Vegas. Yeah, for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Well, Nashville, they're getting they're getting ready to spear. They're gonna be doing something like a baby spear. They're really trying to be Vegas. Well, now they need gambling and then it'll be all there.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah, basically. More more cranes, more construction cranes.